Sick of the ill informed, who know nothing about climate change!

bigjimmy1

i agree with this postthe problem is as stated the sheep follwing tony abbott the american indians have a name for a person like tony abbott HE WHO SPEAKS WITH FORKED TONGUE MEANING LIKE A SNAKE
bigjmmy1

Kitty31

P.S I think the Carbon Tax is a step in the right direction. Although I think more thought could have been put in certain aspects of it - for example the farm forestry scheme - I do believe that it is positive. Anything that encourages Australians to consider how much carbon they are consuming will be beneficial at least in increasing awareness.

Kitty31

My view is that the global climate has changed since the beginning of time, and El Nino and La Nina mean more localised fluctuations occur every so often. Therefore, we see variation in annual rainfall, mean temperatures etc.. I also believe climate change exists, as I define it as being a change in climate that results from human interference. I do believe our activities can have a harmful effect on the environment and the climate. I think it is important to differ between normal fluctuations due to ongoing climate events and climate change in terms of it being human-induced. I feel that the debate regarding climate change relates mostly to differing ideas as to its definition rather than vastly different beliefs.

ciaobella

Climate change is a misnomer. Our planet, in fact our entire solar system, is dynamic and by definition, climate will always change. It's rather silly to tax carbon dioxide emissions; we, after all, exhale carbon dioxide ergo we should be taxed for every breath we take. Tony Abbott is not stupid. Like most of us, he is fully aware of the 'modals' used by the IPCC failing to come to any conclusions and a movie by a super rich politician like Al Gore does not anthropological climate change make. By the way, the Vikings settled on Greenland and farmed agricultural crops there, but they left after many years when suddenly the weather got colder and they could no longer grow food all year round. It is obvious very little of past historical events are taught at school now, or most of you would have known that. As for Iceland, it has 4 seasons like most other places on earth and, when it is summer, there is virtually no ice whatsoever. The polar bears prefer the winter because they are able to catch more prey but they are fantastic swimmers and always have been; not minding an 18km swim out to sea chasing those pesky seals. The north pole or the Arctic, is an ice sheet not an ice continent like Antarctica, therefore, in summer, all you see is mostly gravel and rock. 'Frozen Planet' is on the 9 network at the moment and it wouldn't hurt some of you watching it just to learn something. As for the methane gas from cows, well aren't you glad dinosaurs aren't around any longer! By the way, the word 'organic' means 'living thing'; it too has been hijacked to mean something else - you still need land to grow 'organic'. Putting a tax on something that cannot be measured, is beyond comprehension and is only that, a tax. Nothing will change but you will notice prices rising beyond your family budget. Tony Abbott doesn't need to tell us that, it's obvious to anyone who can think. If you are sick of the so-called 'ill-informed', perhaps you ought to read more and then, at least, you may be informed on some real facts, most of which seem to be eluding you now.

paradox

Hi again, I forgot to mention that the portrayal of emissions from those gigantic smoke stacks has nothing to do with the emissions that the carbon tax targets. Carbon Dioxide is odourless, doesn't have any smell and is colourless. It certainly is not the black billowing masses of smoke that is portrayed in government advertising. I am all for saving our planet but we need to approach it without the bull. Carbon Dioxide for instance is stored in trees and released when you burn wood, same goes for coal. So limit your own consumption of these products and install some renewable energy products where you can.

paradox

Hi Mariposa and thanks for posting this topic, but please just hold your horses for a bit and stop the scare you trying to put into us. Things are not that bad as yet and if, and that probably includes you, people would do the right little things we would not have the bigger problems. Me and my family have always striven to recycle what we can, composted and grown our own foods when possible. It doesn't take much of an effort once you are used to it. Having a carbon tax will do nothing to reduce emissions for as long as we the masses of people squander our resources like we do now. We can walk to corner store or the servo, we can park our cars at the rail or bus depot and take mass transport to work. We, the 7 billion people inhabiting this planet can contribute more to reducing carbon emissions than any tax will ever do. this carbon tax is only a bit of political grandstanding to be followed by carbon trading. the rich companies will not stop polluting, they will just buy carbon credits and Bob's your uncle.
if you want to do something positive plant a few trees in your backyard and talk to your community on ways that we the ordinary people of this wonderful planet can help keep it this way. I do so hope that I have not offended anyone with my bit and I will now return to my mail that is now all electronic to save a few trees.

ozziedigger

P3nn,I agree with much of what you say,not all,but the destruction of forests for money is criminal,and will cost the earth more than what the profiteers can ever make out of wood.I agree that problem is the first to fix.
Can you imagine, if all the deserts of the world became vegetated,would our problems disappear?
If Australia started 200 years ago,to channel water to the edges of our desert,i believe it would`ve made a big difference.Even if they just started the job and came back when there was money for it,that would be major progress.

p3nn

Hi guys. Whilst I agree that carbon tax is by no means a solution it may help to turn ***some*** members of industry towards more sustainable methods. Sadly I believe the rest would basically pass the cost on to the consumers as a way of offsetting that cost. The real answer is in educating the average person re what is happening and what they can do. Yes we can each do our part to reduce carbon emissions, eg. I use a bicycle as my mode of transport even though I'm 46. Also I am in the process of constructing my own solar power system ( plus earth battery, plus wind power) for powering my appliances. It's not that hard really. If you can handle a screwdriver ....... Mind you I do have some basic electronic know how as well. This is where sharing knowledge comes in. We all can manage this if we really try. One can get the parts either pre assembled parsts (only needing to know how to use a screwdriver, drill, etc, eg. solar panels, deep cycle batteries, charge regulators, etc) or the more basic components (electrical/electronic knowledge will help but still not essential) with plenty of info on the net re how to. Given any block there's ***likely on average*** already one person that can manage the construction of such a project.

Now on to climate change as a general topic. What most people don't realize is that climate change is a given. By that I don't mean that our species hasn't contributed to speeding up the process. In my opinion we certainly have. What I mean is that for the most part it is a natural process. When the Earth first formed there was no atmosphere in the sense that most would understand. At some point life started by way of simple single celled organisms, and later plants which contributed to the oxygen content of our atmosphere. By the time the dinosaurs evolved the oxygen (O2) content of our atmosphere was around 31%. As animal life flourished (remember animals use O2 and expire CO2 (carbon dioxide) the O2/CO2 ratio started to change, ie, the O2 level started to drop and the CO2 level started to rise. Then when looking into the earth's climate in the past what we find is that there have been numerous times the earth has cooled down (ice ages) and the rewarmed. Right now we are in a warming cycle. However there's no question in my mind that we're are contributing to the speed of this cycle today via a poor understanding of the natural cycle and via greed from our industrial sector seeking profit above all else generally. Not all business does but it seems most do.

And whilst we here about the carbon emissions of our industries contributing to climate change there is an even greater contributer imho, ie. the destruction of our forests which are in effect the earths lungs which regulates the conversion of CO2 to O2 via photosynthesis. We (as a whole) destroy a huge area of forest each day, ie. we are giving the earth the equivalent of emphysema. I believe our first priority should be to save our forests (btw they do create their own climates [local or micro climates]) and find ways to increase forestation rather than decrease it. We ban build our homes underground for instance. Here in Aus it does happen in a few places and these homes tend to be more energy efficient. They're mostly in the outback but I feel they should be the norm. I feel that we should aim for a minimal impact on our planet.

This could be argued from a number of points. If from the religious using us a custodians of this planet then we are currently failing in that we are allowing species to die of to accommodate our own greed. It could be said we've become earths virus which would really be a sad state of affairs. Or we can take it from the point of of a species that has made the biggest impact on the planet, aka. humans or us. We really have made an impact, and it seems to be a rather negative one at the moment. We're destroying the lungs of the earth (forests) which regulate the CO2 to O2 conversion. We poison the environment with toxins either not found in nature or in far higher levels than found in nature.

In short we need to learn to live with nature rather than fight it as we oft do. Just an opinion

Anonymous

i am not misinformed! Of coarse the climate is changing! Its been changing from the begenning of the earth, miilions of years before humans came along and it will still be changing long after where gone. YES we do have a small impact on the earths climate but it is a very small one, NO tax on carbon will stop the climate from changing in Australia let alone the world. The carbon tax is just a socialist scheme to redistribute the wealth. Our manufacturing industry will be ruined because we cant compete with other countries who do not have the tax ie China India and the USA , and thats just the start of the jobs that will go over seas. If the labour and green governments where really concerned with climate change it would stop selling coal to china who cause way more pollution then we do. I am so sick of people acting like taxing carbon is some how going to SAVE the world as we know it ...... Thats up tp mother nature........

Proteus

Here here...couldn't agree more !!!

bones

yes you have it in one climate is always changing as is all the land masses ,and that will not change until our sun goes nova so why keep up the pretense of a carbon tax when the government only want more money from us to make the rich richer and the poor poorer. all politicians lie so they can get in office so they can get richer

Anonymous

So truly said has anyone heard or read about the current climate change in Iceland if not here goes where the land once was covered permanetly covered with ice it is now being farmed for food crops if that is not climate change what is it people even a polar bear swam from its home to iceland as well

19chris51

here here, I agree whole heartedly

Niki

Yes, that's true; Also there's a great need for many more well-maintained, clean parks for public.

MTD

As far as water is concerned, we will (eventually) have more than we need for Victoria when they get the desal plant operating, it can be used for agriculture/farming/food production if required. at a cost of course. As for not understanding climate change, yes the climate is changing. Do humans have an effect on it, yes. Does or can nature contribute to it, more so. Just think of what volcanoes can contribute, methane gas and other dormant gas reservoirs can do to the environment. Do we need to reduce our PRODUCTION of carbon gas? Absolutely, but by taxing it? It is like ETS's , just money making schemes for governments and their way of thinking supported by people that make an income out of it. There are many other effective ways these gasses can be reduced by humans, some of which are already in operating systems and need to be supported, instead of proposing to spend 1b$ on trying to keep refugees out of this country.(There are other , more suitable & humane, solutions to that problem as well). To put a point to the carbon gas issues, and quote somebody, "you would not buy a dish cloth for $3.25 if you did not know that it would take the dirt of the dishes", but can you or anybody else tell me how much carbon gas we will not produce for $11b per year? Reality, if we use less electricity, petrol, gas, water, transport etc to reduce the output of these gasses, the governments (state & federal) will put up their prices, and/or allow massive increases by private industry, to cover their increased unit costs. In Victoria that happens automatically twice a year. That especially stinks as far as some charges,such as fines, go as that amounts to money grabbing while they can. It is supposed to be limited to inflation. Tell that to the local councils, up to 15-25% rate increases each year. The Federal Gov. as collector of GST for the states and the income of of excise and other taxes on fuels, is already trying to work out how to replace lower revenue collections because we are beginning to use far more efficient power sources that use hardly any or considerably less fuel and thereby reduce their take. One of the positive outcomes is that it will reduce the carbon gas PRODUCTION, but not because of the taxes. Nobody in GOVERNMENT wants to know about that. In 30 years or so, the world will run out of hydro carbon fuels, with the bonus of less carbon gasses, no hydro carbon fueled motors, (Planes, Cars, Trucks, Motor Mowers,and 10,000's of other types of Hydro carbon dependent products) I can go on for ages in this area and suggest solutions, but not many people that can do something about it will listen as it may affect their applecart or slice of that pie. As far as Tony Abbot goes, I don't think he is against reducing carbon gasses, just the proposed tax take, and for that, I will back him, but not for some of his other suggestions. I will stop at that note otherwise it will become a book. Any comments on this out there? Rip it apart if you like, I will accept your right to do that , but what action will you take to support your view? With thanks, regards, Bill.

ozziedigger

As far as water is concerned, we will (eventually) have more than we need for Victoria when they get the desal plant operating, it can be used for agriculture/farming/food production if required....

hey MTD ,i missed something in your narrative.You asked the question what action will i/we take,but you haven`t said what you are doing!
I personally do what i can to the best of my apparent ignorance of what is happening to our planet.

Anonymous

As far as water is concerned, we will (eventually) have more than we need for Victoria when they get the desal plant operating, it can be used for agriculture/farming/food production if required....

well said but where do you start, took years to get there, government were fully aware a long time ago.................................................

MTD

As far as water is concerned, we will (eventually) have more than we need for Victoria when they get the desal plant operating, it can be used for agriculture/farming/food production if required. at a cost of course. As for not understanding climate change, yes the climate is changing. Do humans have an effect on it, yes. Does or can nature contribute to it, more so. Just think of what volcanoes can contribute, methane gas and other dormant gas reservoirs can do to the environment. Do we need to reduce our PRODUCTION of carbon gas? Absolutely, but by taxing it? It is like ETS's , just money making schemes for governments and their way of thinking supported by people that make an income out of it. There are many other effective ways these gasses can be reduced by humans, some of which are already in operating systems and need to be supported, instead of proposing to spend 1b$ on trying to keep refugees out of this country.(There are other , more suitable & humane, solutions to that problem as well). To put a point to the carbon gas issues, and quote somebody, "you would not buy a dish cloth for $3.25 if you did not know that it would take the dirt of the dishes", but can you or anybody else tell me how much carbon gas we will not produce for $11b per year? Reality, if we use less electricity, petrol, gas, water, transport etc to reduce the output of these gasses, the governments (state & federal) will put up their prices, and/or allow massive increases by private industry, to cover their increased unit costs. In Victoria that happens automatically twice a year. That especially stinks as far as some charges,such as fines, go as that amounts to money grabbing while they can. It is supposed to be limited to inflation. Tell that to the local councils, up to 15-25% rate increases each year. The Federal Gov. as collector of GST for the states and the income of of excise and other taxes on fuels, is already trying to work out how to replace lower revenue collections because we are beginning to use far more efficient power sources that use hardly any or considerably less fuel and thereby reduce their take. One of the positive outcomes is that it will reduce the carbon gas PRODUCTION, but not because of the taxes. Nobody in GOVERNMENT wants to know about that. In 30 years or so, the world will run out of hydro carbon fuels, with the bonus of less carbon gasses, no hydro carbon fueled motors, (Planes, Cars, Trucks, Motor Mowers,and 10,000's of other types of Hydro carbon dependent products) I can go on for ages in this area and suggest solutions, but not many people that can do something about it will listen as it may affect their applecart or slice of that pie. As far as Tony Abbot goes, I don't think he is against reducing carbon gasses, just the proposed tax take, and for that, I will back him, but not for some of his other suggestions. I will stop at that note otherwise it will become a book. Any comments on this out there? Rip it apart if you like, I will accept your right to do that , but what action will you take to support your view? With thanks, regards, Bill.

HWY84

As far as water is concerned, we will (eventually) have more than we need for Victoria when they get the desal plant operating, it can be used for agriculture/farming/food production if required....

Hi Bill,

A marvellous totally believable opinion. I agree with everything that you have said and you have given an opinion with is based more on common sence rather than emotions and political beliefs. I am a retired Police Officer trying to live on a police pension and at the very present my wife and I are examining every expenditure that our houshold makes. Due to utility and food prices increasing I am very concerned that soon I will not be able to even pay my bills.

gk

As far as water is concerned, we will (eventually) have more than we need for Victoria when they get the desal plant operating, it can be used for agriculture/farming/food production if required....

Do you grow your own food ? Collect rainwater for home use ? Are you getting free solar hot water at home ? If not, why not ?? Do you use a bicycle as your main transport ??? Do you buy locally produced goods and services ? Would you invest in PV panels to generate your electricity. Be part of the solution !

gk

As far as water is concerned, we will (eventually) have more than we need for Victoria when they get the desal plant operating, it can be used for agriculture/farming/food production if required....

Do you grow your own food ? Collect rainwater for home use ? Are you getting free solar hot water at home ? If not, why not ?? Do you use a bicycle as your main transport ??? Do you buy locally produced goods and services ? Would you invest in PV panels to generate your electricity. Be part of the solution !